Every Tuesday at noon during the season, Cardinals manager Oli Marmol joins us on KMOX for 35, 40 minutes of good baseball conversation. Oli doesn’t duck any issue, he isn’t bothered by aggressive questions, and he puts up with me. Which ain’t easy to do.
Today, with the Cardinals lurking 3 and ½ games out of the National League’s No. 3 wild-card spot, I asked Marmol about his desire to win and make a push for a postseason spot – and how he conveys that feeling to team president of baseball operations John Mozeliak.
Though nothing is 100 percent certain, it seems obvious the Cardinals are in the “seller” mode going into Thursday’s 5 p.m. (STL time) MLB trade deadline.
Does Marmol try to convince Mozeliak to stick with this team and give the players a chance to make it to the October stage?
Contrary to the widespread and lazy public opinion, Marmol doesn’t hesitate to challenge Mozeliak and push back on the boss’s viewpoint when they disagree.
So what about now, less than 48 hours from the deadline?
I was surprised by Marmol’s answer. I thought it was an excellent answer.
“We’ve had several conversations about how I feel, about how he feels, on how to take this thing forward,” Marmol said. “And the reality is, if you take a step back, you think about what we’re trying to do over the next two, three, four, five years.”
Marmol has these same discussions with incoming president of baseball operations Chaim Bloom, who takes over for Mozeliak after the season.
“And being able to sit down with Chaim as well, and talk through what’s possible for this organization moving forward,” Marmol said. “I don’t want to make decisions that feel good in the short term, and then we’re stuck in this middle ground for another couple of years.”
Marmol was warming up.
“Man, I want to be able to – even in my seat, as I sit here – I want to make sure that we’re not (just) sneaking into the playoffs every year,” Marmol said. “I want to beat people’s ass.”
Marmol elaborated.
“Like you show up to the field and take your best shot, and showing up to the field knowing you’re going to win,” he said. “And once in a while, you may get beat. It’s different. I want to get to the point where this club and this organization is back to doing exactly that – which is you show up every day, knowing you’re going to win. And at times, somebody beats you.”
Marmol’s point was obvious to me. Yeah, you may go to the playoffs with a strong, highly capable team. But it doesn’t mean you will win all of the time.
But – and Marmol is correct – the objective is to make the playoffs with a legitimately talented and formidable club that can win postseason rounds, including a championship series, and World Series. As opposed to crawling into the postseason with a lesser team that has little chance of success.
And I can’t imagine how anyone who cares about the Cardinals would disagree with that. Given their heritage and prestige as one of the most successful franchises in major-league history, the Cardinals are supposed to put together robust rosters that will compete for the big trophies instead of making these little half-measure moves at the trade deadline that won’t get you to the playoffs. And even if your team sneaks into the playoffs, an early elimination is the most likely outcome.
The Cardinals shouldn’t creep into the playoffs with an underfunded and incomplete team that has too many holes. The Cardinals should confidently march into the playoffs with the talent and attitude to conquer. It used to be like that around here.
“In order to do that,” Marmol said, “we’re going to have to make some tough decisions. But it doesn’t mean I’m not showing up today, trying to win. I can guarantee that.”
Sure, Marmol would like to see the Cardinals add players at the deadline, and keep his outstanding bullpen intact. All managers have similar instincts and urges.
Marmol sees a much bigger picture. He understands the Cardinals must build up their roster. And they have to do it the right way – no rush jobs, no shortcuts, do it the right way – without rush jobs or shortcuts – to reestablish a commanding presence in October’s baseball theater.
If Marmol wants to be a part of taking this team out of the Mozeliak Middle and get to the hard and challenging work of making the Cardinals great again – Well, that's what most fans want too.
MY HOPES FOR THE TRADE DEADLINE
1. Find a new home base for Nolan Arenado. In this scenario the Cardinals and another team will make a deal that is agreeable to Arenado. At age 34, he transfers to a contender for a chance to win a pennant and World Series. The benefits are obvious, starting with the opening of the third-base spot for Nolan Gorman. My confidence level: minimal.
2. Bullpen sale! The Cardinals trade relievers Ryan Helsley, Phil Maton, Steven Matz and JoJo Romero to collect stocks that can be converted into Chaim Bloom’s restoration project. My confidence level: Pretty strong but I’m not sure Mozeliak will move Romero, who is under team control through 2026.
3. Acquire a young, MLB-ready starting pitcher. This pitcher would be a cost-controlled talent and part of the St. Louis rotation for multiple seasons. I don’t know what’s necessary for the Cardinals to get that done, but a fella can hope – right? With so many of their own prospects getting sidelined by arm surgeries, the Cardinals need a transfusion of starting pitching for 2026. Confidence level: fingers crossed, which isn’t much confidence at all.
4. Mozeliak really, really listens to Bloom. That would mean taking a step back to give total attention and respect to Bloom’s wishes. These men get along well, but if they disagree on a particular matter, Mozeliak should defer to Bloom. I say that because Bloom – a short time from now – will have to deal with the 2025 trade-deadline decisions when he becomes the leader of the baseball department. So those decisions should be made by Bloom instead of Mozeliak. Confidence level: OK. Mozeliak will respectfully listen to Bloom and certainly will give considerable weight to Bloom’s views. But will Mozeliak leave the decisions to Bloom? Doubtful.
5. Clarity for 2026. This could mean a number of things … moving Nootbaar if the chance is there and the deal makes sense … making moves to ease the current positional logjams … the willingness to barter a catching prospect for future gain … not doing anything that will result in a waste of player-payroll dollars … enlarge the pool of potential starting pitchers if a deal can be pulled off that makes sense and isn’t an absurd overpay. If handled with skill, this trade deadline can help set up a good offseason for Bloom in his debut as the new head of the baseball department. Confidence level: not high, not low. More in the midrange area.
BURLY ON THE RUNWAY
I asked Marmol to assess the current runway season and pick a player or players that are taking full advantage of the opportunity.
The manager didn’t hesitate to cite one name: Alec Burleson. Marmol is especially thrilled by Burleson’s improvement defensively. Last offseason Marmol challenged Burly in what could be termed as an ultimatum: get better defensively, or the Cardinals won’t be able to play you as much as you want to.
Two stats:
— In 2023 and 2024 combined, Burleson was a minus in outs above average when playing left field. This season he’s above average – plus one – in both defensive runs saved and outs above average in left field.
— In 2024, Burly was well below average in right field at minus 6 defensive runs saved. This season he’s cut that to a minus 1 in defensive runs saved in right. That's a major improvement.
Marmol also cited starting pitcher Matthew Liberatore and reliever Kyle Leahy and mentioned Leahy could be in line to receive a chance as a starting pitcher. Marmol is also encouraged by Jordan Walker’s new batting stance and mental approach in the batter’s box and believes the right fielder is headed in a positive direction on the runway. Marmol also mentioned Nolan Gorman but noted that Gorman’s momentum was interrupted by some minor injuries.
There are still two months of regular-season baseball to play, and the runway is still open. And more opportunities should be created once the Cardinals get past the trade deadline and look to the future.
BACK TO BURLESON
After a pretty quiet April, Burleson has produced high-level offense since the start of May. In 271 plate appearances over that time, Burleson has batted .299 with a .351 on-base percentage, .537 slug, .888 OPS and a wRC+ that’s 47 percent above league average offensively. Burly also has 16 doubles, 14 homers and 42 RBIs in his 69 games since May 1.
Combined with his obvious defensive improvement this a positive turn in Burleson’s big-league career.
Over the last three months, Burleson leads the Cardinals in batting average, slugging, home runs, and wRC+ and is second to Willson Contreras in RBIs.
Also: since May 1 Burleson ranks in the top 10 of National League hitters in batting average, slugging, OPS and wRC+.
BIRD BYTES
1. The Cardinals’ decision to put Ivan Herrera in left field will require time and patience as he learns a new position, but he’ll settle. The position switch makes sense for a lot of reasons, but I want to zero in on something I’ve been hollering about since last season.
2. It’s about the St. Louis outfield and its weak offensive performance as a group since the start of last season.
3. Over the last 10 months of regular-season baseball, St. Louis outfielders collectively rank last among the 15 National League outfield groups in home runs, 14th in slugging percentage, 14th in OPS, 13th in batting average, and 13th in runs batted in. And their outfield-based hitters are also near the bottom in the overall 30-team MLB rankings over the last two seasons. Brutal.
4. The anemic production by their right-handed hitting outfielders is so bad it almost defies belief. Since the start of 2024, the right-handed St. Louis hitters that are in the lineup as an outfielder have put up the worst numbers in the majors. It’s sickly.
4a. Over the last two seasons, their RH outfield bats rank 30th with a .205 average, .271 on-base percentage, .323 slug, and .594 OPS. They’ve cranked only 10 home runs in 541 at-bats. Per wRC+, the Cards’ right-swinging outfielders have performed 32 percent below league average offensively over the last two seasons.
5. So how will Herrera help cure this horrendous problem? One of the best things about Herrera playing left field is obvious; his bat and offense are part of the equation and add value to this move.
6. Herrera is a fit and that would be an understatement. Among NL right-handed batters that have made at least 220 plate appearances this season, Herrera ranks 3rd in batting average, 4th in on-base percentage, 5th in OPS and 3rd in wRC+. He’s 48 percent above league average offensively, and the only NL right-handed batters who have topped that are Ronald Acuna Jr. and Will Smith.
7. Great start by Andre Pallante in Monday’s 7-1 win over the Marlins. Rebounding from an awful three-start stretch in which he got speared for a 9.77 ERA, Pallante went seven shutout innings and allowed one hit and one walk. He also struck out four, which is fine for him.
8. How good was Pallante’s performance Monday? I like to go to the Bill James-devised game score for a quick-and-easy measure. Anything above “50” is above average, and Monday Pallante recorded a 78 game score that was tied for the fifth best by a St. Louis starter this season:
– Sonny Gray had a 96 game score on May 27 at Cleveland.
– Erick Fedde had an 83 on May 9 at Washington
– Gray had an 80 game on May 7 against Pittsburgh.
– Gray had a 78 at Texas on May 31, and Pallante matched that vs. Miami.
Pallante has three of the team’s top nine game scores in a start this season. Gray has five of the top nine and Fedde had the other.
9. Speaking of Sonny Gray: he starts for the Cardinals on Tuesday and it’s time for a return to quality and consistency. In his last 13 starts going back to May 14, Gray has a 4.89 ERA. Fortunately for the Cardinals they were 10-3 in those starts. In his last eight starts, Gray’s ERA is 6.15. But the Cardinals managed a 5-3 record in those games.
10. Brendan Donovan will have Tuesday night off. Marmol thinks Donovan needs a break, and he’s right. The monthly tracking shows it.
@ Donovan, first two months: .329 average, .390 on-base percentage, .469 slug, .859 OPS, and 44 percent above league average offensively based on wRC+.
@ Donovan, last two months: .231 average, .316 on-base percentage, .353 slug, .669 OPS and 11 percent below league average offensively.
That’s a huge drop in performance.
Thanks for reading …
–Bernie
Bernie was inducted into the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame in 2023. During a St. Louis sports-media career that goes back to 1985, he’s won multiple national awards for column writing and sports-talk hosting – and was the lead sports columnist at the Post-Dispatch from 1989 through 2015. You can access all of his columns, videos and the podcast version of the videos here on STLSportsCentral, catch him weekdays on the “Gashouse Gang” or “Redbird Rush Hour” on KMOX (104.1-FM and 1120-AM) and he is a regular guest on the “Cardinal Territory” video show hosted by Katie Woo of The Athletic. Bernie does a weekly “Seeing Red” podcast with Will Leitch on the Cardinals.